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Icecrown Citadel Raiding Schedule

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Icecrown Citadel Raiding Schedule

Post  Boman on Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:02 pm

Hi All,

Rumors are out in full force that we may be seeing Icecrown as soon as next week. With that in mind I wanted to post my tentative thoughts and plans to get feedback so that we can discuss with Silver Hammer and finalize what we'll be doing.

Since Icecrown will be released in phases, our best course of action will be to move to Icecrown in phases as well. So what I've been thinking about is:

1. Upon Release
Thursday: ToC25 (Open Raid, Mains/Alts allowed, 1 epic, no veterancy)
Friday: Icecrown Citadel (Veterancy and minimum requirements enforced)
Saturday: Ony25/Voa25 (Open Raid, Mains/Alts allowed, 1 epic, no veterancy)

Unfortunately that takes Ulduar off the schedule (sorry Aurisa!), so if people are open we can see if we can work anything else out for that. For Icecrown I would recommend a simple Oz calculation on the minimum dps we need on average to down the 1st set of bosses, and we use that as our minimum requirement for DPS. If you don't meet it then you are considered a backup until you do. For healers I would probably put a minimum of 2k. Veterancy will reset, but for any nights where we have to hit LFG to pug, veterancy will not be used. The 1-epic will remain in effect for main spec items at least initially. I am also leaning more towards the people should roll for their role that they play in the raid. If we want to progress people need to be maximizing the role we need them to play. And the start of a new raid is the perfect time to find out who we really have and who we may need to replace.

As we start progressing, I would see us spreading into the Saturday time slot first, and probably moving that back to 10pm and maybe earlier based upon availability. And finally moving into Thursday as well if we need 3 days to clear all 12 bosses.

Anyway, I'm running late - so those are some initial thoughts. I'll try to post more later, but please start throwing out whatever feedback you might have.

Thanks!

-Boman

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Re: Icecrown Citadel Raiding Schedule

Post  Boman on Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:11 am

As always, time passes. After last nights Ulduar25 run I'm thinking more and more that opening up the Thursday night run is the way to go. It does bring some pain to those that are looking for that "one" item they never got, but it does keep us raiding. I think last night went pretty good, and we haven't had a Thursday like that in a while.

The main thing, as always, is that we need so many healers, so many tanks, and so many dps - and as a group need to be able to perform overall to a certain level. So on a given night we may always need to ask some people to swap up.

-Boman

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Re: Icecrown Citadel Raiding Schedule

Post  rachetguy on Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:53 pm

I would love to come but what are the times for start/stop of each nite?

Briteleaf

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Re: Icecrown Citadel Raiding Schedule

Post  Boman on Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:06 pm

The times for all are:

Thursdays: 6-8pm server
Fridays: 6-9:30pm server
Saturdays: 8-9:30 server

Which coincide with our current raiding times. Though Saturdays stop time is usually earlier, as we only do Ony and VoA (if we didn't do it Friday). And some people only come for Ony. For example last week we were all done at 8:30 server.

-Boman

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Re: Icecrown Citadel Raiding Schedule

Post  Boman on Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:52 am

Hi All,

Kindring and I had the opportunity to talk a little bit last night. Some of our current proposals (he is bringing back for further discussion - and I am posting here) are as follows - not everything I'm putting out has been discussed, as I've expanded a little bit on some topics:

1. For ToC25 which is currently planned for Thursday nights when Icecrown is released, we allow alts as long as they (a) maintain consistency and are not a serious detriment to the goals of the group or (b) meet or exceed necessary performance standards for the given raid.
2. An important point - Mains get loot preference over alts. There are many that have been coming to ToC regularly that still don't have all the gear that they want/need. PUGs will get an advantage as we'll have to treat them like a main. We can re-negotiate this at some point during Icecrown as gear issues dissipate.
3. As discussed previously, Veterancy will reset. There has been past discussions about how it should reset and if the core raiders from ToC25 should start with more. More discussion is always welcome, but my current thinking is that we want people to start back off on equal footing to hope that we have a new core team. So to have some people start out higher seems like it could foster some negativity when we're starting fresh.
4. When the time comes that we need more time for Icecrown, we will expand into Saturday nights first. As we need even more time we will evaluate with the group moving the Saturday start time. This would probably change to 7-9:30pm server at least initially. Depending on progression and how fast wings are unlocked, this probably won't be until at least a month after.
5. Ideas are welcome on this one! Coming up with a different way to handle distribution of the tier tokens. I'm not sure if anyone knows how Icecrown plans to handle tier and in what quantities opportunities will drop?

As always, input is welcome.

-Boman

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Re: Icecrown Citadel Raiding Schedule

Post  Boman on Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:20 pm

Hi All,

I expect December to be a bit of a rocky raiding month. It will be especially tough with our primary raiding day falling on both Christmas and New Years. I am open to raiding on both, but I would bet that many can't. I'll still put them up on the schedule, but unless we get around our normal number of accepting, we'll cancel.

I'm also hoping to start the new year with a renewed vigor towards cleaning up our raids. I don't know what we'll be raiding this week because although I had plans to start Icecrown, I know some are not too excited about the prospect this week. So it's sure to be a last minute decision on what exactly we end up doing.

Here are some of the things I'm planning to do, at least from the DO side:
1. You are not considered a regular unless you make it to at least 75% of a given raid
2. You can only be considered a regular if you meet #1 and are doing at least 4k dps or 2k healing. Those numbers may be increased if we find we're struggling too much in Icecrown. Those are approximations/averages.
3. Odds are that you will continue to get a spot until we recruit more people. I plan to start stepping up recruitment because we often have trouble filling.
4. Until you meet all requirements for a regular, spot preference on a given night will be based upon prior performance and raid need.

Icecrown is going to be amazing - and the hardest thing yet I imagine. So that's what we need to be prepared for. We have many raiding nights and opportunities for people to gear up, and many people willing to help if you need to improve. Join the raids, ask for help.

We will not be left behind!

-Boman

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Re: Icecrown Citadel Raiding Schedule

Post  Nezrathii on Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:19 pm

I really hope we can get this going but currently I have more faith in our 10 mans than our 25 to put in the required effort necessary to downing new content. I don't honestly have any suggestions on how to fix this as our 3/5ths of a DO/SH raid seems to have higher requirements to get in. The same standards we have, if then applied to them would possibly halve their numbers within the raid - or at least on the dps side- healers wise/tank wise there seems to be little problem but as a group friend guild would they then pull out all of their members because some aren't up to snuff? Honestly, while the grouping has worked in the past it will not continue to be in the future. People like Ct who want to progress and expect others to be putting effort into their raiding will always clash with those from a friend guild whose main purpose is staying together.

I have no real suggestions on how to fix this conflict beyond changing our 25mans to a full guild or even mostly full guild run but that will always be difficult when we have to content with 10/25 of our raid spots taken by those who have no standard for entry.

Maybe a solution that will either fix the problem of effort or cause the shift of the ball being back in our court would be to apply our standards to all raiders actually calling out those unable or unwilling to meet the standards. This would have to be worked out by you and Kindring and he would have to agree that those not making the cut would not be invited to the group. You have the logs from our raids. I would suggest looking at them and finding those specific people who do not meet the cut and block them from entering the raid.

As I said this will most likely result in either a big shift in our raiding where we fill more of the 25 slots or a break from SH. But if you are going to be recruiting then this is what is needed because new people won't sit around forever waiting to get into a raid that is partially filled with lesser capable people just because they have a required 10 out of 25 space.

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Re: Icecrown Citadel Raiding Schedule

Post  Boman on Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:36 am

I went through the logs yesterday and I think one of our biggest issues is perception. At least when it comes to meeting what I'm defining as minimum requirements. From our earlier raiding days in Ulduar 25, everyone has improved quite a bit. I do find our guild chat a little frustrating because I enjoy raiding with the Silver Hammer and without them it would be a heck of a lot more painful trying to do the 25-man content. If we look back to this summer, we didn't raid because we couldn't get people. Yes, with icecrown out now it would be easier to fill. But just like before, once the content gets boring or we stop progressing we'll start losing people. Then we're right back to where we were.

Some people were doubting our ability last night in Icecrown on the first boss. From what I saw as soon as everyone gets used to the fight we have the ability to get it down. We definitely need a few more healers and a few more dps. I didn't have WorldOfLogs going because it was our first night and... I forgot. But from recount I can say that there are 2 regular dps'ers that need improvement, and several of our healers need more gear. We need to push those people to be showing up on Thursday nights for ToC25, and Saturday nights for Ony25. If they choose not to show up on those nights, what does that mean?

After the raid last night Oz, Aurisa, Kindring, Wyrdrune and I had a discussion. We finalized some of our raiding parameters going forward for Icecrown, and basically just said whatever was on our minds. Here are the results of that discussion:

1. Loot Rules (until we consistently fill within our guilds and all players meet requirements):
a. 1 epic per run
b. Raid spec priority (ie: your normal role for us is your main spec)
c. Any boss that you underperform for you do not get loot priority
d. If you underperform due to a role we ASKED you to perform, you will be given an exception
e. Exceptions will not be given if we did not verbally and explicitly ask you to perform that role
f. I will try to be good about calling out exceptions before boss pulls. Since I don't expect many.

2. Everyone will be held to the same standards. Unless we find that we must adjust it, that standard is:
a. Your DPS must be 4k or higher, or Oz
b. Your healing must be 2k or higher
c. If you don't meet a or b, you must be a tank

3. Spot preference is based on past performance, with minimum requirements being the guide.
a. We will still try to fill from guilds first, but if you are an underperformer you are not guaranteed a spot
b. We need to continue recruitment until we are filling with a raid that all meets requirements
c. Underperformers should try to improve quickly so that they maintain there spot

For next week I am going to start a thread where I list everyone's performance on a weekly basis for Icecrown. So you will know where you stand. If you are wondering if you need improvement, you do. Life is about constant improvement and you should always be striving to improve. Raiding is constant change, so if you happen to be someone that loses out on a permanent spot, you can be sure another will pop up very soon.

Next thing I ask is to stop looking at this as an us and them raid. It's hard to do because we are from 2 different guilds. But it's one raid. We have people that come back week after week. Some of them perform above average, some average, and some below average. We need to be better about how we handle the below average performers.

I'm going to put out another post to go over the numbers in more detail - at some point today. But for this post I think that's enough for now.

Thanks as always!

-Boman

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